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Post by d2acollectables on Nov 20, 2005 0:16:43 GMT -5
The question is do draft picks really build a team? The answer is yes and ill give a prime example of the milwaukee bucks.The bucks have been bad for 4 years now but have built a team around draft picks and young talent not old.Magic johnson is prolly one of the best players in the league in only his 3rd year.There are other players the bucks drafted that have amounted to all the wins this year as a team and they are blatche/Hawes/smith/cooper all role players and or starters that have been drafted with magic and have contributed large sums in means of the bucks winning ways. Yes a vet pickup in a guy like RJ always helps but thats one guy with so many young guys like rose/blatche/magic/hawes to round out the starting 5,the average age of the bucks is 23 years old that shows that youth is essential to any team and they should not be traded away for older over the hill has beens.
So i ask the question to all gm's do you think youth is everything or to have a team of over the hill has been's? I would like to hear you responses to this question.
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Post by C.C. on Nov 20, 2005 3:00:04 GMT -5
do you think youth is everything or to have a team of over the hill has been's? both
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Post by djmyte on Nov 20, 2005 4:45:34 GMT -5
Once a player reaches 28 he's considered undesireable which is amusing to say the least. It seems like the popular aim is to acquire a young stud at every position so a team can have some sort of 12 year dynasty I suppose. It's a nice plan but answer this one question, out of all the championship teams this league has seen how many of them have been composed of only youngins? Youth and potential are nice but while everyone is obsessing over those two things, the team with the "right mix"(regardless of age) will be the last one standing.
Ahh, time to gaze upon my championship trophy.
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Lakers GM
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Post by Lakers GM on Nov 20, 2005 9:38:52 GMT -5
Where I'm coming from is that every contender has that mix, except the older, in-its-prime version. The reason that's an undesirable road to travel for a team making moves is that these players have huge contracts and are really tough to acquire.
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GMHornets
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Post by GMHornets on Nov 20, 2005 10:30:11 GMT -5
It's so difficult to get the right mix of star-quality veterans to take a team far. In my first year as the Hornets GM, I dealt then ROY Jameer Nelson, Nick Collison, and a first for Baron Davis. I loved the deal. I paired him with Jamison (who was great at the time), Mike Miller (simmed great), Podkolzine, and a solid bench to get me 45+ wins.
But, it was clear that the team wasn't ever going to get over the hump. So, I dealt off Baron for Boozer, Shaun Livingston, and a first. Livingston has now been my PG for years, and is still only 24.
A similar thing happened with Gerald Green. I picked up some quality FAs (Luol Deng, mostly), paired him with Josh Boone, and grabbed Shawn Marion. Then I dealt Marion/Natt/First for Green. Another member of my starting lineup.
Mayo was drafted, and Dwight was dealt for off of a project who turned valuable (James Bailey; got him for nothing), and Semih Erden (who I got for my pick in the 2008 draft, James Donaldson). The 3rd and 4th members of my starting lineup.
Basically what I'm saying is, in this league you need multiple stars to truly compete. The easiest way for that to happen is through the draft, and trading current stars (but not absolute greats) like Baron and Marion for future stars like Green and Livingston. Now, I'm in a position where I have 4 stars, the Baron's/Marion's for the next ten years or so.
Sure, I waited three seasons to start seeing some results, but I think in time this current group is championship-caliber. And I couldn't have done that had I gone solely with Vets, or even a mix of vets. They're so hard to aquire due to their deal. I got three of my big 4 in their rookie deals. Basically, to end this ramble, picks/youth are the way to go, IF you don't have the luxury of a Kobe, JO, etc.
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Post by d2acollectables on Nov 20, 2005 10:48:11 GMT -5
i like the answers to sucess,but i agree on the hornets answer as it's just like mine a team that built for 3 years to finnaly see the results without a shaq,kobe or tmac type star. vets might get you to the playoffs for a flash in the pan but young guys will get you there more times if you keep them all together
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Scrub
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Post by on Nov 20, 2005 12:22:58 GMT -5
Building through the draft is one thing. Winning the lotto and getting someone like Magic is different. Its one thing to actually get a huge young star, and build around him. Its another to consistently get good players in the lotto, and never truly compete.
Also you did a great job of building a bench through FA as well as the draft. I think people underestimate the bench play, and thats why alot of teams are left scratching their heads wondering why they are in last place.
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krupimpski424
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Detroit Pistons
I was the drink that hit Ron Artest
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Post by krupimpski424 on Nov 20, 2005 12:43:33 GMT -5
Well, my opinion of the league is that everyone is over concerned with with youth. I have been trying to establish a balance of youth and older talent on my squad. I have been in a little bit of a stale mate trying to deal some of my older talent for anything due to their age.
My Team Jermaine O'Neal 32 Kobe Bryant 32 Peja Stojakovic 33 Stephon Marbury 33
These players are my veterans and right now my best players. They are the type of the players that I feel that will enable me to win a championship right now. I know they have had most of their best years behind them already but they are still talented and will be for a few more seasons. I am not looking to dump these players in order to aquire a hopeful talent or someone that may reach their talent someday. On the other hand a guarenteed stud is another story. To counter balance these players I currently have
Chris Paul 25 Darrell Arthur 23 Malik Hairston 23 Herb Williams 23 Greg Paulas 24
Herb was aquired via through the draft and has fit my team quite nicely and we still see room for improvement. Hairston and Arthur along with 4 first round picks were aquired for the services of another youthful big man A. Biedrins who is doing quite well in Denver now. Hairston will is the hopefull heir to Kobe Bryant but we are holding on to both to hold the high level of play now but not lose the high level of play for the future either. Paul has been a starter on the team and will look to remain a part of the Pistons for a long time. Paulas who is Paul's understudy is a very simular player to Paul and is a Piston Favorite.
Now to bridge the gap between the extreme youth and older veterans I have the inbetween players who are not old but not young(according to most bbs gms) who play different roles on the team and serve mostly as key backups
Hakim Warrick 27 Isma'il Muhammad 27 Reese Gaines 28
ok so I lack in this department a little bit
Now onto the draft picks....I have zero picks for the 2011 season mostly in part due to the aquisition of a few players but I know that I will not need any rookies to come in for the 2012 season. On the other hand I know Kobe, O'Neal, Peja, and Marbury by the end of the 2012 season might be on their downward spiral and I have four 2012 first round picks at my disposal to re-up for those four players.
In closing I love the Hornets squad they are youthful and awesome and will be hard to compete against uhhh pretty much for forever. The same with the Mavs they basically went from zero's to hero's but they also sacrificed winning last season and also bought out Steve Nash, their best player last season, to rebuild for the future. I am not sure if Hornets did the same thing or not. So some might like to lose now in order to win later but here in detroit we are trying to win all the time.... only time will tell who's strategy will pay off but my vote is for balance.
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GMHornets
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Post by GMHornets on Nov 20, 2005 13:31:23 GMT -5
Well, my opinion of the league is that everyone is over concerned with with youth. I have been trying to establish a balance of youth and older talent on my squad. I have been in a little bit of a stale mate trying to deal some of my older talent for anything due to their age.
--
You'd be going with youth as well if you started with a terrible team. Everyone here would like to build around JO and Kobe. They were there when you got there (as well as tons of other talent). Had they not been, you'd be talking up your young players as the future, instead of saying members are over-concerned with youth. You walked into something great.
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Post by djmyte on Nov 20, 2005 14:19:50 GMT -5
Another thing Ive noticed...
Regardless of how high a players potential really is, there will always be players that regress and improve during training camp. Teams that stack themselves with strictly young, high potential talent never get to see them all turn into great or almost great players. It just doesnt happen like that. At least not from what ive seen.
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krupimpski424
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Detroit Pistons
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Post by krupimpski424 on Nov 20, 2005 14:37:44 GMT -5
Well, my opinion of the league is that everyone is over concerned with with youth. I have been trying to establish a balance of youth and older talent on my squad. I have been in a little bit of a stale mate trying to deal some of my older talent for anything due to their age. -- You'd be going with youth as well if you started with a terrible team. Everyone here would like to build around JO and Kobe. They were there when you got there (as well as tons of other talent). Had they not been, you'd be talking up your young players as the future, instead of saying members are over-concerned with youth. You walked into something great. point well taken....but my point was aimed at players such as marbury, bibby, ai, peja, marion are all looked at as worthless(or more like not wanted) when i feel they are still very valuable. Crawford would be my best example...age 30 last season avg 26ppg which was 8th best in the league...i would have had an easier time trading shit in a bag on fire than him. Apparently he was too old and not good enough for most teams in this league. And his defense went up this past TC as well as did Peja's....declining with age my ass
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krupimpski424
Starter
Detroit Pistons
I was the drink that hit Ron Artest
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Post by krupimpski424 on Nov 20, 2005 14:38:20 GMT -5
Another thing Ive noticed... Regardless of how high a players potential really is, there will always be players that regress and improve during training camp. Teams that stack themselves with strictly young, high potential talent never get to see them all turn into great or almost great players. It just doesnt happen like that. At least not from what ive seen. I agree....thats where my point of balance comes in
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GMHornets
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Post by GMHornets on Nov 20, 2005 14:43:15 GMT -5
The point about Marbs is a good one. He's still a great player.
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Post by d2acollectables on Nov 21, 2005 21:14:52 GMT -5
glad to see my article sparked some interest hopefully i will be rewarded for this
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Post by The Pink Panther on Dec 1, 2005 7:39:52 GMT -5
i disagree about needed to build with youth.
I got into the league i had a starting 5 of
Raef LaFrentz Antoine Walker Bonzi Wells Gordan Giricek Jay Williams
two years later i had
Jerome James Kenyon Martin Shawn Marion Richard Jefferson Jason Terry / John Gilchrist [not sure which one i had at the time]
And i had a championship without going anywhere near youth.
The way to succeed is to make good, smart trades.
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Post by Lumley316kings on Dec 2, 2005 0:01:35 GMT -5
Danny I traded you Gilchrist for Terry.
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Post by The Pink Panther on Dec 2, 2005 16:39:20 GMT -5
yeah i know, but i dont remember which one i had running the point when i won the championship.
it was one of them, think it was Gilchrist
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Post by Lumley316kings on Dec 2, 2005 16:47:12 GMT -5
Gilchrist
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Post by Thunder on Dec 2, 2005 23:16:05 GMT -5
Interesting article...
I completely understand what DJ and Mark had to say. I especially like what Danny had to say. A good blend of talent, age, and skills is crucial to a championship team. Unfortunately, not all gms are given the chance to build their team from the first player, so building through the draft and youth is crucial for gms inheriting shitty teams. More than anything, no championship team is possible without good trades that take teams along a specific path towards a specific goal.
Each of the championship gms won their championships through different methods. Spencer (Commish/Detroit), Jeff (Retired/Chicago), myself (Brian/Golden State), Danny (Utah), Manas (Retired/Houston), and DJ (Toronto), won with very different teams and different franchise-building styles. I can't speak for the others, but I can speak about my philosophy in (re)building the Warriors twice now.
To start, not much magic to the formula... I identify my franchise player (Webber, Dirk, AI, Marbs, PP, Yao, finally Darko), make trades to surround them with starting-caliber talent, and develop a bench of stars or young potential stars to complete my team. I also get lucky from time to time... Twice in my memory actually. The 1st was getting the 1st pick in the draft for my current starting center Emeka Okafor. The 2nd was sweeping Detroit in the Finals. A sweep. They won ZERO games. Seriously, it was brutal. The league almost ended that day.
My main break with some of the other champions has been my general philosophy to try and maintain a high level of quality on my team by trading stars before they lose their trade value. Arguably, when I moved some of my stars they were highly-productive players, but I felt that raising overall talent level to championship-caliber quality was the most difficult part of the league. Once you're great, it's really hard to fall from the top. Once you're bad, you've got a 4 year rebuilding project at best.
With that in mind, AI, Dirk, Ray Allen, Rip, Marbury, PP, Odom, and Yao were moved before they began to decline. It wasn't that these players couldn't contribute, it's that before their quality and reputation declined, I wanted to get equivalent value in stars, potential stars, and picks. I think my willingness to part with stars earlier than necessary has been the main difference in my team-building moves.
As a side note...
My current team is slightly different than my championship team due to the consistent youth at every position. I think that the nucleus of this young team will stay together and hopefully compete to Golden State's second championship. Just gotta find a way to have Spencer get a team again...
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Post by Benderheart on Dec 4, 2005 18:29:26 GMT -5
i believe that there has to be a veteren presence . you cant have a team completely full of young talents but two or three veterans are always a good bet
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Post by Benderheart on Dec 4, 2005 18:33:04 GMT -5
in my opinion draft does not help everyone because you can have a team that is not horrible but not a contender either which leaves you with the 18th 19th pick which has a good chance of beiing a bust. In that case you have to be creative with player movement and free agent signings
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Post by The Pink Panther on Dec 10, 2005 13:04:51 GMT -5
Which is why i should get consideration for best GM of all time ;D
I inherited LaFrentz, Toine. Bonzi, Giricek and Jay Williams. No draft picks and no cap room. And I won a ring 2 years later.
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Scrub
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Post by on Dec 15, 2005 16:33:06 GMT -5
+10
It was good at stimulating conversation, but it was really short. Adding a little more effort, either in written or in pictures adds to articles. I give points based on the effort and time given, not the response a given article revceives.
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