In season extension discussion.....

[SoonerfanTU]

I was voicing my concerns over this yesterday, and Spencer told me to start a thread for discussion.

I don't think going to one offer per year is the best thing to do. First, it really hurts teams that have multiple guys becoming FA's in any year. For example, after next season, I've got 6 guys that will be FA's. I'd likely want to resign at least 4-5 of them. But, since most are coming off of their rookie contracts, I won't necessarily be able to offer them the best deals in FA.

This league prides itself on being "realistic". I like that, but I think letting that many players go to FA is actually going to hurt the league. It will ramp up the salaries (creating more players that are overpaid and have no trade value). I understand the need to let some players walk, and to not let owners just max out any above average player just to keep them. I also understand that the way things are now, it makes it hard for Spence and the rest of the league council to process the extensions.

Spencer said if we came up with a better solution, he'd listen. Here are a few of my ideas/thoughts:

1) Maybe we could only have like 3 "periods" when extensions can be offered. Spencer could open up that board, and the council could all go in on one day for each period, and approve/reject them.

2) I don't have a problem with only allowing one max offer per season. I think that would still make it tough for teams to bogart talent, and would help increase the talent that makes it to free agency.

3) My biggest concern centers around players coming off of rookie contracts. I think teams should be able to offer at least a couple of these guys per year. There really isn't any advantage to the "old team" with these guys, b/c the max offer is going to be the max for years in league amount. Anybody with cap space will be able to offer the same contract you can, or at least a close enough contract to negate any advantage the "old team" might have had.

Suggestion: To sum up, I guess I'd like to see the 3 things above happen. Open up a handful of "periods", likely the time between one sim and the next, for owners to make their offers. Have the council get together on one day to approve/deny these. Teams can only offer one max deal per year (in season, not including anything done in FA), and allow up to 3 players coming off of their rookie contracts to be tendered offers.

I think this would help ease some of Spencer's concern, while still creating a more exciting FA period. BUT, it would also allow an owner to better keep some of his younger players, without having to "over offer" in FA. Trust me, I've been around sim leagues long enough to know that the first problem this league is going to have, is teams "overpaying" for FA's, and thus creating a ton of overpaid players that can't be dealt. This will create teams that have a low chance of winning, and frustrated owners will quit. Just something to keep in mind.

[rommie]

I like the above idea much better than just one offer per season. It would make the league more realistic.

Maybe make a limit though, say you can't extend more than 4 players per season [with 3 offers.] unless you trade them.

When you say rookie contracts, what exactly do you mean? Under the CBA 1st rd picks are signed for 4 years, and have Bird rights after the 4th year. This means a team can go over the cap to sign them. 2nd round picks are signed for only 2 yerars, meaning no Bird rights, and that the team would need to be under the cap to re sign them.

[SoonerfanTU]

I understand that. But IMO, it isn't about going over the cap, its about having the ability to sign a guy I drafted either 2 or 4 years ago, without having to overpay b/c the that player in real life is "Owner X's" favorite player, so he's going to offer him a ton of money whether he's worth it or not.

Edit: I want to add, my biggest issue isn't with signing or not signing somebody due to the cap. Its with having to compete with other owners in FA for a guy that in real life probably wouldn't have tested the market. I mean really, in the NBA, how many studs "truely test" the FA market? Not many, and those that due often have 1-2 teams in mind when they test.

Again, I understand wanting to make FA a little more exciting, but I think one offer is way too low. I think you could get to the same point, but still allow owners to have a little more control with the things I mentioned above. Should make YOUR job easier too.

OK, well Im a bit confused, because I dont feel like you have a set idea that you are proposing here. I understand that opening the extensions only for certain times of the year, and closing it at certain times, but Im not sure youve really given a set of rules regarding increasing the amount of free agent offers. It needs to be set.

Also, as far as 2nd rounders re signing, unless youre under the cap, its just not possible. Next year we will allow the option to sign 2nd rounders for 3 years, instead of 2, but as of now, it is impossible to re sign a 2nd rounder, when youre over the cap.

[Lumley316kings]

Well we could do a restriction rule like the nba, for players who you want to match that get signed to a offer sheet

lumley316kings said:

Well we could do a restriction rule like the nba, for players who you want to match that get signed to a offer sheet

Too much work

[Lumley316kings]

Maybe a harder cap, it doesnt bother gms now to go way over

The cap isnt the problem IMO, its people that dont know how to play under the given system. If you know what youre doing, and you understand the rules, its not hard to manipulate the cap.

[SoonerfanTU]

admin said:

OK, well Im a bit confused, because I dont feel like you have a set idea that you are proposing here. I understand that opening the extensions only for certain times of the year, and closing it at certain times, but Im not sure youve really given a set of rules regarding increasing the amount of free agent offers. It needs to be set.

I'm kind of leaving that open. I just know it should be more than one. I don't mind having a limit though. My suggestion would be something like maybe 5 offers total, only one can be for the max, and maybe for only 3 players total, unless you deal one. For example, if I have 4 players that are going to be FA's, I can make offers to 3 of them. I can only offer the max once, and can only make 5 offers total. If I make offers to players A, B, and C, then I trade B, I could make an offer to player D, as long as I haven't used up my 5 offers on the first three players.

Also, as far as 2nd rounders re signing, unless youre under the cap, its just not possible. Next year we will allow the option to sign 2nd rounders for 3 years, instead of 2, but as of now, it is impossible to re sign a 2nd rounder, when youre over the cap.

I understand this too. I guess I'm so used to being under the cap, I think that way. But yea, I'm just saying that if you are under the cap, you should be able to resign these guys too, if you want.

[SoonerfanTU]

Again, my biggest point is just that I think the rule of only 1 extension is a little small. Change it to 3, say you can only offer the max once, and have "extension periods". Those 3 things will fix all the things you want fixed.

soonerfantu said:

I'm kind of leaving that open. I just know it should be more than one. I don't mind having a limit though. My suggestion would be something like maybe 5 offers total, only one can be for the max, and maybe for only 3 players total, unless you deal one. For example, if I have 4 players that are going to be FA's, I can make offers to 3 of them. I can only offer the max once, and can only make 5 offers total. If I make offers to players A, B, and C, then I trade B, I could make an offer to player D, as long as I haven't used up my 5 offers on the first three players.

So, 5 offers total. 1 can be a MAX. This is basically the system we had before, and I think that could work again. I dont really care how many players you offer on, but I would like the 5 offers as a limit, because I feel like too often we are bothered by crappy offers. If you only have 5 you better come strong with your offer.

I understand this too. I guess I'm so used to being under the cap, I think that way. But yea, I'm just saying that if you are under the cap, you should be able to resign these guys too, if you want.

If youre under the cap, youre fine. You can sign those guys to whatever you want. From now on, 2nd rounders can be signed for up to 3 years, so they will have Bird rights. Beware the quality of the 2nd rounders coming out though, because from here on out theyll be pretty bad.

[SoonerfanTU]

I agree with both statements you made.

[Lumley316kings]

Old system of 1 max and 5 offers is good
another idea if you didnt use your max maybe you could roll it over

OK, this is a basic proposal for the league to check out. I was the main proponent of 1 offer per year, because Im basically sick of people complaining about in-season offers. I hate having to hear guys cry that we (as a council)dont think there offer is good enough. So as a statement to all, feel free to ask me what I think it will take to get a player re signed, but dont complain to me about it if my thoughts differ from yours. Even better, approach other people on the council and not me...... Thank you in advance....

NO ROLL OVERS!!!

David is too busy rolling minutes over for people all day.

[SoonerfanTU]

admin said:

David is too busy rolling minutes over for people all day.

Heh.

He's trying to set the rules of the league to be like the cellular industry. ;D

[Lumley316kings]

He y I dont work for the worst cell phone company of all time we do not offer roll over, get your companies straight

[SpursGM]

Hi, I agree.

Thank you.

[Reevesport]

keep it as is, I say.

[The Pink Panther]

How about a possibility of 1 offer per player and 1 max offer.

This way GM's must come with a good offer and it stops the council being messed about with crappy offers.